Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Actionable Futurist podcast brought to you by Vodafone, a show all about the near-term future, with practical and actionable advice from a range of global experts to help you stay ahead of the curve. Every episode answers the question what's the future of? With voices and opinions that need to be heard. Your host is international keynote speaker and actionable futurist, andrew Grill.

Speaker 2: 0:29

We've been talking about 5G for a long time. In the UK, two in five people already enjoy the benefits of a 5G-enabled phone, according to leading consumer research agency DWI. But do we really understand how it could transform the things we love most in our day-to-day lives? To understand more about potential for 5G, my guest today is Nikkie Lyons, vodafone UK's Chief Corporate Affairs and Sustainability Officer. I've been working with her team lately looking at the opportunities for 5G in the UK, and we've just released a report with my Futurist predictions. Welcome, nikkie, it's great to have you on the show Hi, andrew, lovely to be here.

Speaker 2: 1:05

Now, as listeners may know, I've worked in the telecommunications industry as far back as 1995 with Telstra and Optus in Australia, and I've been working with Vodafone since 2005 in various engagements. I've seen all the Gs, from 1G right through to 5G, so I thought I already knew a lot about 5G, but working with your team, I've learned there is so much more to 5G. With 5G standalone, also called 5GSA In the UK, we've enjoyed 5G's faster download speeds on our mobile phone since 2019, but we're yet to experience its true game-changing potential brought about through 5G standalone. Perhaps you could outline more about 5GSA, what it is, what does it mean for Vodafone and, more importantly, for your customers?

Speaker 3: 1:47

5G standalone is essentially a uniquely upgraded future proof from start to finish 5G network. So it's important to know that 5G that we have now is built off the back of our fantastic 4G network, so you're not always getting all the benefits, whereas a 5G standalone network is entirely 5G start to finish, with all the speed, all the resilience, all the environmental benefits, all built in from scratch.

Speaker 2: 2:20

It's the way 5G was meant to be.

Speaker 3: 2:22

Absolutely, absolutely, and I think when it's fully up and running across the entire country, you'll see a real difference right now in existing in parts of the country. So in a lot of big cities there's a lot more 5G, but obviously the goal is to build the standalone network from one end of the country to the other so that everybody can benefit.

Speaker 2: 2:44

So why do you partner with a futurist to explore how 5GSA will make a difference in the next few years?

Speaker 3: 2:49

What we're trying to do is help people understand the potential with all innovation, with all new technology. It's a little bit of anticipation and there's some trust in there as well. We're asking customers to believe us and to help us see the vision into a reality, and I think working with a futurist and creating these kind of ideas into reality will help people see the fantastic potential of 5G standalone Well as I outlined in the report.

Speaker 2: 3:18

5gsa is a new. Many operators worldwide are deploying it, so rather than being the future, it's here and now. In the report, I looked at the things we love here in the UK and the areas of sports, gaming, entertainment and retail. It was a lot of fun and the key findings in the report were for retail, we've got connected clothing such as smart sneakers and chatty cardigans. That will emerge thanks to 5G-enabled microchips smaller than one P coin, enabling garments to talk to each other, allowing fashionists to discover new ways and styles to express themselves.

Speaker 2: 3:47

We'll also see a fully connected game may lead to the end of the AR or video assistant referees, something that readers of my report in one of the UK's national publications seemed very excited about. For entertainment, we'll become part of the broadcast and TV producers will be able to involve viewers in the program directly. We'll see the rise of competitive gaming on the go. It will democratise gaming, bring the power of high end gaming consoles to more people. Interestingly, my final prediction was that 5GSA will become the norm for connectivity ahead of Wi-Fi. I'm really interested as to what surprised you most about these findings and, secondly, what excites you most about my predictions for the future with a national 5G standalone network.

Speaker 3: 4:27

We've been talking about this for a long time at Vodafone, so I'm not sure that anything took me completely by surprise, but I did love the description of seeing the end of the AR. So we know how much people dislike it. All sports fans dislike the slow, plunky, the AR process and how it interrupts the game, and 5G standalone could really transform the big moments where you've got a player contesting a call, a referee having to consult and then all of the fans who don't see the detail that the referee is looking at endlessly debating it from one week to the next. With 5G standalone, everybody will be able to participate in the review and the judgement process, perhaps in real time. I think that's really exciting and that, for me, was a really good example of how transformative 5G standalone can be for the nation.

Speaker 2: 5:24

I was reminded of my report only in the weekend there was a match for the Six Nations. It literally came in one game. Down to the very last second there was a dispute over a try. The AR was involved. They couldn't get a camera angle. So even though it may have been a try, there weren't enough camera angles. If we'd have 5G, if there'd been all the sensors on the players in the pitch, on the ball, it would have been an instant decision. But even with all the technology, we're still relying on humans to make that decision. So I know that that particular game could have gone either way had 5G standalone been there nationally.

Speaker 3: 5:56

Yeah, you're absolutely right. The other one that was big news at the weekend was apparently the first touchdown by the San Francisco 49ers in the Super Bowl was the wrong call and of course it stood. The referee made the call, it stood, the game continued and then in the break about 20 minutes later, they reviewed the judgment back in the studio and said it was the wrong call. So imagine if all of the fans could, around the world, everybody watching the Super Bowl could follow along with that and the decision the correct decision be made and reviewed and decided in real time, be an absolute game changer.

Speaker 2: 6:34

It will be a game changer and I think we'll see a lot more sports follow the lead of that. I mean, tennis has had Hawkeye for a while. That's a little easier because it's a tennis ball against a line, it's not a subjective being offside, but I think we're going to see technology enhancing the games that we love.

Speaker 3: 6:48

Yeah, absolutely. And imagine if you could really decide things like the offside rule based on technology embedded in the players shoes. I mean that that Absolutely, totally exciting view of the future.

Speaker 2: 7:01

So Chrisley, why is 5G standalone the key here? Couldn't we make these exciting predictions a reality with existing 4G and 5G networks?

Speaker 3: 7:09

It's about the speed of the technology and also it's the access to it. So the beauty here you know, joking aside it's not just about the referees seeing the technology, it's about everybody, whether you're watching at home, whether you're watching in a totally different country, and you know the example of the Super Bowl. It's the ability to connect to a network and for that network to operate in real time and share information around the country, in our case, or around the world. If everybody gets standalone 5G in the future, it's the real game changer. And I think, if you think about what we're hearing from consumers in the UK about how they use their mobile phone out and about people want to be less reliant on Wi-Fi, but they want that Wi-Fi experience for gaming, for downloading movies, for access to news wherever they are, at speed. That is the potential of a 5G standalone network.

Speaker 2: 8:08

That phrase, that Wi-Fi-like experience. It's always on, it just works. You're going to get high speed and certainly with some of those applications like gaming you need that latency. One of the quotes I remember in one of my interviews was that one of the e-racers. He said we're racing wheel-to-wheel with people around the world. I can't have any latency on our network because otherwise I'm going to lose. So it can come down to milliseconds on these sorts of applications.

Speaker 3: 8:32

Just the speed of data transfer, people's expectation, even now, to be able to deliver against, an expectation of a seamless experience wherever you are. However, whatever your demand is, it will be game changing and it will enable us to, I think, live very differently from the way we do now.

Speaker 2: 8:52

So let's look at three of the predictions featured in my report. We're familiar with wearable technology. We regularly use things like smart watches and fitness trackers to monitor our health, but these technologies mostly rely on the owner's mobile to be nearby to work effectively. What if everything we wear could not only measure our well-being, but also connect to other garments and provide a richer experience? What if they could even offer suggestions of what to wear, allowing us to try out new styles and express ourselves in new ways? So where could we go? Thanks to 5G standalone, coupled with IoT and big data, people can unlock the ability for the products they buy and wear to influence their style and future purchases far beyond what is possible with today's wearables. So how does it work? According to Sophia Remtula, former Accenture retail strategy lead, a futuristic use of 5G standalone in the retail space will be product-to-product communication, where we may see garments like trainers talking to each other as their wearers pass in the street. Informed by the data they collect, they would then suggest outfits for you to try, based on the preferences of people whose style you admire, creating brand new shopping experiences.

Speaker 2: 9:57

The fully connected game will bring the game to every fan everywhere. For sports like football. If you're at the game, you've probably given up trying to share your experience with friends who can't get to the match using your mobile due to poor connectivity. If you look up at the stadium's screen, you can see what the TV director thinks is the best camera angle. But how do you share what you're truly experiencing from your seat with your friends at home? 5g standalone will give fans anywhere in the world access to multi-camera angles, which they can then select and view on their smartphones. It means you can get up close to the action, even if you're in the back row of the stadium or not in the grounds at all. 5gsa connects these cameras to fan smartphones both in the stadium and at home. Crucially, 5gsa has a feature called network slicing, where a dedicated slice of the network can be ring fence for an event or type of content For those smart cameras. We'll be able to reliably and consistently stream their footage, even when the network is incredibly busy with other users on game day. With access to these cameras, fans can choose the best angles for viewing the action and see the tackles, passes and winning goals on their smartphones. 5g standalone will offer every viewer an up close look at the action, regardless of where they are in the world, bringing sports fans closer to the games they love. We're seeing the emergence of innovative technologies like connected cameras and smart balls, but as they're rolled out more widely and used together, we could even see them impact how we navigate the historic rules of sport.

Speaker 2: 11:23

Currently, when an offence takes place during a game, the VAR or Video Assist Referee will help the ref make a call on who was at fault. The technology is often hotly debated, holds up games and has room for human error, but 5G innovations can help by giving fans access to 5G enabled cameras. When a foul or poor tackle takes place, everyone watching the game can see whether it was really a red card or a penalty. This could bring an end to the much debated and sometimes much hated VAR process. In addition, pairing these cameras with 5G enabled smart ball technology, as well as sensors and microchips on the player and pitch, means everyone, from referees to fans, has a completely accurate view of the action, down to the most precise detail.

Speaker 2: 12:09

This level of accuracy could usher in an era of undisputed offside decision making, removing the need for VAR and replacing it with live data to show what's on and offside. Put simply, 5g enabled technologies will give everyone real time, highly accurate data on game day. Armed with this, we can reduce the time spent on offside decision making or VAR arguments and devote more time to the game fans love. So, as you've said, 5g stand-alone is available in parts of the UK, so we need it to be national everywhere so everyone has the same access to these exciting applications. And in the conclusion of my report, I mentioned that none of these predictions could happen without a national 5G network. So tell me more about your commitment to building this network, subject to your proposed merger with 3G here in the UK.

Speaker 3: 12:55

This is the exciting part of working at Vodafone right now. We have planned a proposed joint venture with 3G. We're waiting for regulatory approval. We're obviously working through the process right now. Just thinking about what that will mean for our customers and 3G's customers and actually that the customers of competitors as well is a completely different 5G network in the UK. So we've committed together with 3G that if the deal goes ahead, we will have more than £11 billion to invest in our network. That means a bigger, faster, more resilient network in every part of the UK. So that's filling in the not spots, the rural parts of the country where we currently don't have a strong, reliable network. It's also challenging the big competitors in the UK market to do the same, which means that everybody wins Ultimately. E-customers of all networks if there's greater competition in the market, will benefit from a desire to compete more rigorously with each other.

Speaker 2: 14:04

I'm hearing about other operators who are mentioning 5G standalone, so it will become a competitive advantage. A years ago it was coverage, it was speed. Now I think you've got to have a 5G standalone network, otherwise these opportunities just aren't there.

Speaker 3: 14:15

I mean the government has set us all targets. They created something called the wireless infrastructure strategy last year, which was a real mission statement for the UK that if there were full investment across the UK in effective networks it would inject an impetus to on-growth into the UK economy. Better for small businesses, better for large businesses, better for public sector like the NHS, our train network. It just gives us all something not just exciting, but something important to work towards.

Speaker 2: 14:53

I think we've become very complacent about having these mobile networks there. The fact that I know if my bus is due is because there's a wireless network sending data about where the bus is and how close it is. We take some of these things for granted. As I say, I've been around since 1G. I've seen this evolution. I'm really excited about 5G. I'm really excited about what 5G standalone can mean for Vodafone customers and the wider community.

Speaker 3: 15:15

Yeah, me too. The reality is the UK has fallen behind. We've fallen behind other European countries. We've fallen behind the US. There are countries in Eastern Europe with a far less powerful economy than we have in the UK who are streets ahead of us when it comes to mobile technology. So just having access to that £11 billion to be able to build the network that the UK deserves is something we feel really passionate about at Vodafone.

Speaker 2: 15:45

The report just gives some of the opportunities for the UK. So it was fantastic to partner with you and understand what a 5G standalone network would mean.

Speaker 3: 15:52

Well, thank you, we enjoyed it as well, and some of your predictions, andrew, were really exciting. I love the idea of a connected wardrobe.

Speaker 2: 16:00

Chatty Cardigans was the phrase. I think I love that Cardigans talking to each other.

Speaker 3: 16:05

I love the idea of actually having somebody else choose my wardrobe for me and decide what I should buy next. I think that's brilliant.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Well that, plus 5G, plus AI, it will tell us what we should be wearing. Maybe we'll actually be better dressed than we've ever been because we've got all these different data points telling us what looks great on us. So I look forward to that. I'm sure many listeners will as well. Now we're up to the favourite part of my show we called the Quick Fire Round. All of my 100 guests have been through this, and it is a way to learn a little bit more about the people behind the microphone iPhone or Android, iphone, window or aisle.

Speaker 3: 16:37

Isle In the room or in the metaverse. In the room. Still in the room.

Speaker 2: 16:41

I love being in the room, your biggest hope for this year and next.

Speaker 3: 16:44

I would like to see a clean and polite election here in the UK and in the US as well. Let's keep it clean. Let's be grown up.

Speaker 2: 16:55

IUI was on BBC the day talking about AI misinformation. This year, 65 regions go to the polls and more than 40% of the world's population gets to vote. This is a pivotal year for the world.

Speaker 3: 17:05

Nobody wants fake news. Nobody wants missed information. Nobody wants to be fooled by an AI politician. Let's hear from the real people and let's keep it clean.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Nice segue to my next question. I wish that AI could do all of my.

Speaker 3: 17:19

Oh my goodness, my tax return, absolutely. Please take my expenses, take my envelope of receipts. Please, ai, work it out for me.

Speaker 2: 17:29

The app you use most on your phone. What's that? The best advice you've ever received.

Speaker 3: 17:33

Will it still be important tomorrow?

Speaker 2: 17:35

I like that one. What are you reading at the moment?

Speaker 3: 17:37

I just finished reading Anne Patchett's Tom Lake Really really good. I would highly recommend it. Set during the pandemic family back at home, lots of things coming out of the woodwork and, yeah, very real.

Speaker 2: 17:52

I'll put a link to that in the podcast. Who should I invite next on the podcast?

Speaker 3: 17:56

I would love to hear from the new female CEO at BT, Alison Kirkby.

Speaker 2: 18:02

How do you want to be remembered.

Speaker 3: 18:03

I want to be remembered as a smart, kind, inspirational woman. So, as this is, the actionable futures podcast.

Speaker 2: 18:14

What can our audience do today to understand how Vodafone and 3's merger will be increased benefits to the things we love and drive innovation in the UK?

Speaker 3: 18:21

You can take a look at Vodafonecouk. Go onto our new centre. There is a tonne of news and other information and articles. There is also a Vodafone and 3 separate site which is just information on the merger, and a tonne of information there as well.

Speaker 2: 18:40

I'll put all these links in the show notes. Nikki, a fantastic discussion. Thank you so much for your time and thanks for giving the opportunity to gaze into the future.

Speaker 3: 18:47

No, thank you so much for having me, Andrew. It's been really great.

Speaker 1: 18:50

Thank you for listening to the actionable futurist podcast brought to you by Vodafone. You can find all of our previous shows at actionablefuturistcom and if you like what you've heard on the show, please consider subscribing via your favourite podcast app so you never miss an episode. You can find out more about Andrew and how he helps corporates navigate a disruptive digital world, with keynote speeches and C-suite workshops delivered in person or virtually at actionablefuturistcom. Until next time, this has been the actionable futurist podcast.