Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to Digitally Curious, a podcast to help you navigate the future of AI and beyond. Your host is world-renowned futurist and author of Digitally Curious, Andrew Grill.

Speaker 2: 0:15

In episode nine of the current series of the podcast, I used the new Google Notebook LM tool to create a podcast that reviewed my new book Digitally. Curious On this episode of the podcast, I asked Carol-Anne Ashley, host of the your Mind, Body Link podcast, to interview me about the book. She was one of the first to read the initial manuscript, so she's been across the text for a while. I hope you enjoy the insights from our discussion about the book.

Speaker 3: 0:42

So first let's start off with the origins of the book. In it you mentioned, you had a few false starts. So why this book and why?

Speaker 2: 0:50

now? Really good question. I actually started writing a book back in 2009. It was going to be called Twitter for Business. I had a publisher engaged. I had an advance. I started writing it. Then I got really busy with work and what really was daunting was writing 60, 70 thousand000 words from scratch. So I actually said, look, I can't do one right now. I was actually approached several times when I was at IBM by other publishers saying we think you've got a book in you, and it was actually 2019. And Michael Levy, my speaking agent, said Andrew, you need a book. All the other speakers we represent have books and then they go on to speaking. You've done it the other way around You're a speaker and you're now writing a book.

Speaker 2: 1:26

What about you start a podcast and from that podcast series, every episode could become a chapter of the book, and that's exactly what I did. So, 2019, I started the Digitally Curious podcast, interviewed more than 100 people and about 60 people have appeared in the book. Why now? I think one I had the content. Interestingly, I used AI to transcribe those 60 hours of interviews into something I could then use. So, rather than having to write 70,000 words from scratch, I actually had half a million words that I could play with and had to get those down into something that was interesting enough to read and then put my commentary around it. And why now? Ai is just so hot. But I think people are almost mesmerized by AI being the only technology out there. There are so many other technologies that people need to know about and I think this book helps them demystify technology.

Speaker 3: 2:19

In Digitally Curious, you emphasize that being digitally curious is no longer a luxury but a necessity. You emphasise that being digitally curious is no longer a luxury but a necessity, so could you share a personal experience where digital curiosity made tangible differences in your career or business?

Speaker 2: 2:32

I've been playing with technology from a very early age. As I mentioned in the book. Around age six I was doing experiments electronic experiments with my father. We joined some lamps up and in one configuration they glow brightly, another configuration they glow dimly. And so we write down the outcomes of those experiments in a logbook and I wish I still had that logbook from those days that I was doing it. So I started being curious about technology from a very early age.

Speaker 2: 2:55

I'm the person that has a broken TV in front of them and says can we actually fix it? Can we make it work? I studied as an engineer and I think that allows you to be digitally curious. We're trained to be digitally curious. I remember once I was doing an experiment and the teacher said you need to come into the experiment knowing the answer to the question. So when you do the experiment, if the answer is five volts, you know that's right or wrong. So I was taught from a very early age to always be curious, always be asking why, and so later on in life there have been a lot of examples where being digitally curious has helped my career. I had a website from a very early age around 1994, I think I had a website. I had a domain name in 1999. I've been playing with this technology well before others did so I could be curious and then, more importantly, I could teach other people how to make it impact their life and their business.

Speaker 3: 3:47

Your book covers a wide array of topics, from AI to quantum computing and self-sovereign identity, but which of these technologies do you think will have the most significant impact on businesses in the next few years, and why?

Speaker 2: 4:01

It'd be easy for me to say AI, everything, but the reason I looked at other technologies in the book is I wanted people to be exposed to what's coming next. Quantum computing is probably one area that I want to make people aware of, and a lot of people aren't aware of what we call Q-Day. Q-day is going to be the day when quantum computing is able to decrypt everything that is currently encrypted. Let me put that into simple terms you do your banking and when you do your banking online, there's a little padlock to say that the information you're sending between your computer and the bank is encrypted. But if a bad actor, if a foreign national, is actually recording that transaction, it's decrypted in 2024. But in 2030, a quantum computer can actually decrypt that. So what people need to be aware of now is the threat of QDA. It's kind of our next Y2K. They also then need to look at have we got quantum safe encryption in our bank, in our pharma company? So they should be aware of that.

Speaker 2: 4:57

Self-sovereign identity probably has a greater impact going forward, because it means that users are able to claw back their own data. They're able to claw back their own identity. At the moment, we give our data away to Google and Facebook and Metra and all these different websites and we don't actually get anything in return. What self-sovereign identity will do is allow you and I to have more control of our own data. When you pair that with AI and quantum and everything else pun intended, there'll be a quantum shift in how we actually get work done and how we transact in the new world.

Speaker 3: 5:32

You've interviewed over 100 global leaders for your Digitally Curious podcast, and around 60 are in the book. Was there a particular insight or story from one of those interviews that really shifted your thinking or direction? In writing the book.

Speaker 2: 5:47

There are a couple actually, and they were to do with AI and they were actually some years ago, before ChatGPT launched onto the stage. And one of the guests was talking about artificial general intelligence, agi. This is when computers and AI will act more like human beings in the way we think and remember. This is before ChatGPT. And he, as I said, where will we actually see the acceleration in AGI? And he said really, when it comes down to people investing a lot of time and energy and focus on this research area, which is happening now. But, more importantly, he actually said he had studied how the brain works, because in order to program a computer to act like a human, you need to understand how humans think.

Speaker 2: 6:29

When I'm on stage and I explain how chat GPT works, I say look, massively oversimplifying it. Chat GPT completes the next word in a sentence. It doesn't know whether what it's telling you is right or wrong, so it appears to be human-like. It's just mathematically doing what it's been trained to do. And so this particular guest, peter Voss, was talking about AGI and he said you know, I've understood how the brain works. I just think it's an amazing thing that we have sitting inside our head that will always, I think, be more powerful and more intelligent than any AI is. And the other thing was about what we call observability and explainability. Once you set these AI systems into work, can you actually check whether they're running off the rails, whether they're doing things we don't expect them to do? And those two things really made me think about where AI is going, the things we need to think about as a race and as business leaders.

Speaker 3: 7:22

One of the unique aspects of your book is the Curious Five and tips at the end of each chapter, offering readers actionable steps. Can you explain how this framework came about and how readers can apply it in their business?

Speaker 2: 7:36

The Curious Five came about because every time I do a public talk, I leave my audience with five things to do today, tomorrow, next week. I've called myself the actionable futurist for a number of years now, and so I want to differentiate myself. I'm not just talking about the future, I'm talking about the near-term future, which is today, tomorrow, next week. So those five things that I leave my audience with, I thought at the end of every chapter. There are 22 chapters, so there are five times 22 things that you can do, and I thought it was important to have some actionable insights at the end of each chapter.

Speaker 2: 8:06

So I've read about quantum, I've read about AI, I've read about self-sovereign identity. What can I do next to understand more? And I've read a lot of AI books recently and they're great, but they talk about the theory. But what do I do? How do I actually put that into play into my business? Wiley were really keen that I add this at the end because they wanted people to pick this book up and say, every time I've read a chapter, I've got five things that I can do. And, importantly, the five things get harder and harder. So the first one is quite easy and the fifth one. Probably not everyone will do, but if they do, they're on the path to being absolutely digitally curious.

Speaker 3: 8:48

So in the introduction you asked readers are you digitally curious? What are the key traits of a digitally curious individual, and how can leaders foster this mindset within their teams.

Speaker 2: 8:53

So digitally curious leaders are not just talking about AI or talking about this technology or reading about it. They're using it, and they're using it in a way that they have that aha moment. So, for example, I use a tool called otterai. In plain form transcribes voice meetings into text, and only recently did I understand that actually otterai has its own GPT built in and so you can ask a question. So if you've recorded a meeting with permission, you can then say who contributed most in that meeting, what are the follow-up items, what are the three things I committed to do by next Thursday, and it actually gives you some real intelligence about what you've just been talking about. Now I started to use that and actually for the book, what I did is I thought I want to actually see if I can create an AI out of the book. Openai actually allow you to create your own generative pre-trained transformer or GPT book. Openai actually allow you to create your own generative pre-trained transformer or GPT. So I fed the PDF of the book into the GPT and now it sits there and you can ask it any question. Now I think that's a trait of a digitally curious leader. They said what if? Can I do this. Can I keep asking the AI to do something until it says no?

Speaker 2: 9:59

I think also, people really are very curious if they then go and listen to podcasts. They go to events, they ask encouraging questions, they play with the technology, they sign up for something new. So more recently, google had launched a tool called Notebook LM it stands for Notebook Language Model. Being curious again, I fed the PDF into Notebook LM and there was a button there that said if you push this button, it will create a podcast out of the book. Five minutes later, I had two AI-generated hosts, a male and a female, chatting away as if they'd read the book cover to cover, which they had, and I thought to myself that's what I want my clients to be doing. I want them to go. What if I've heard about this new tool? Let's actually use it in a way that we can actually use this at work. They're the traits of someone who's really digitally curious. But, importantly, once they've uncovered something new, they share it with the rest of their team.

Speaker 3: 10:53

AI is a dominant theme in Digitally Curious. With tools like ChatGPT and AI becoming mainstream, what advice would you give to leaders and businesses who are unsure how to effectively integrate AI into their daily workflows?

Speaker 2: 11:08

You've got to start playing with it. So I'm sure people have played with ChatGPT All of my audiences. When I ask for a show of hands who's played with it? All the hands go up. When I say who's used it every day, most hands go down. I think what's important is for people to play with it. Keep asking it questions until it says no.

Speaker 2: 11:26

Imagine if I was able to give everyone an always-on intern. Basically, you get a free intern by using these tools and I've estimated that I probably save two to three hours per day using these tools. I can either ask it to summarize meetings I can ask it to write me a draft of a press release I'm trying to do or an article for a journalist and I can either ask it to summarize meetings. I can ask it to write me a draft of a press release I'm trying to do, or an article for a journalist, and I can then go and analyze that it can go off and actually do the research for me. So I'm actively using it every day and every day I use it. I find a different use. I find a different way that I can use it a different way. I can ask a question. A different way. I can format data that goes into it to it. So my advice would be use it every day. Just as we send email every day, we probably go on WhatsApp every day. We've learned to integrate that into our daily workflow because it gives us utility and it makes our life easier.

Speaker 2: 12:13

Back in around 1994, I was the first of my friends to get a mobile phone. At the time everyone said why have you spent all this money, andrew, as a student, on this piece of plastic? Slowly they could see that the utility of having a mobile phone, being more contactable and being able to contact people anywhere, was actually really, really useful. So when you actually see how your business processes are accelerated by using these tools every day, you're going to have that aha moment. You're then going to go and infect your team and say guys, let's actually have a weekly update where we share what we've played with and how it's impacting our workflow and how we can actually get work done in a better way. But it's so important that senior leaders are using this. Don't basically delegate this to the IT team. If you're a senior manager or you're on a board, don't expect you've got an IT team looking after this. You need to be trying the tools that your organization and your organization's competitors are using every day.

Speaker 3: 13:12

You mentioned that technologies like AI and blockchain are evolving rapidly, so how do you recommend businesses to stay ahead of the curve and avoid being overwhelmed by these fast-paced developments?

Speaker 2: 13:24

If you were an alien and came to earth today, you would expect that the only technology out there is AI, ai here, ai there. Ai will change the way we work. Ai will change my job. Ai might take my job. It's not just about that technology.

Speaker 2: 13:37

Years ago, we were talking about digital transformation. It's now transformation. We're transforming businesses with technology. We talked about social media. I think very soon we'll just talk about media, because media has multiple forms, and so everyone's talking about AI at the moment, but they're being overwhelmed with some of these technologies and there's this big focus on AI, because I think what's happened is we've actually had 10 years of innovation in about two, and because there's now this focus, there's money being thrown at these AI problems. Back in 2017, the team at Google worked out how to do generative, pre-trained transformers, and that's really spawned these generative AI tools. We've seen such acceleration.

Speaker 2: 14:16

What I want people to see is see beyond just AI. The book talks about quantum. It talks about self-sovereign identity. It talks about NFTs and Bitcoin and blockchain. These technologies haven't gone away, nor will they, but combined with AI and other technologies connectivity, mobile voice, those sorts of things it will really propel businesses forward. So I want people to look at the range of technologies. So deliberately, I didn't just write an AI book, I wrote a book that looked at a range of technologies. In the back of the book there's actually 200 different technologies that are explained in a paragraph or two. So I would encourage people, if they buy the book, turn to the back, see how many of those terms they know, and if they don't, it's time to get more curious.

Speaker 3: 14:59

Data privacy and security are huge concerns, especially with the rise of AI. Now in your book, you talked about safeguarding your digital identity. What should organizations be doing to protect their data and build trust with their customers?

Speaker 2: 15:14

The first thing people should do when they get the book is turn to Chapter 15. Why? Because it is probably the most practical part of the book. Chapter 15 covers why you need a password manager, why you need to have a password strategy, why you need to turn on two-factor authentication. Because I think, regardless of any other technology in the book, the last mile of defense is actually the employee.

Speaker 2: 15:35

If you don't have two-factor turned on your Gmail, your LinkedIn, and you get hacked with these AI tools out here today. Let me give you an example. So if you haven't got two-factor authentication turned on your Gmail and I hack into it if I'm a smart hacker, I don't let you know that I'm in there. I sit there for weeks, possibly months. I learn the names of your kids, your family, your friends, where you go traveling. I then clone your voice, because your voice is all over the internet. And then one day you or someone close to you gets an urgent message in your voice saying I need some money.

Speaker 2: 16:07

I really am stuck at the moment and they say things that only your friends would know and you foolishly say oh, it definitely is Andrew, so I'm going to wire that money to him. This has happened. So by having what I call a family password, that will alleviate that. By having two-factor authentication turned on, they won't get in there in the first place, and not by reusing your password everywhere, you stay safe in your personal life, which then firewalls you from being attacked in your business life, and there are now huge fines out there for data that goes out into the ether, and people have been fined for that. So I think what people should do is go straight to Chapter 15, look at how they can stay safe online personally, and when they've done that, they'll probably, at the Curious Five, go. Well, those five things were actually really easy to do, and now I'm feeling more protected about my data online. What else is there in the book? So some really practical steps that could actually save you from some real embarrassment at work.

Speaker 3: 17:03

Andrew, you've spent over 30 years leading technology companies and being at the forefront of tech trends In Digitally Curious. You reflect on your early experiences with technology. How did those experiences shape your perspective on the future of work and AI?

Speaker 2: 17:20

I think by being a curious young boy helped me through my life and, as I mentioned in the book, my father and I did some experiments. When I was just six years old, I had those 101 electronic kits I got for Christmas. I made a radio and a burger alarm and those sorts of things and then I went to study engineering. So I had some formative years where I was comfortable around technology. I asked sort of questions and I answered my own questions by playing with tech and as technology has evolved mobile, internet, ai, cloud, all those sorts of things I played with those tools to understand them better. And so I think by starting at an early age, I'm so comfortable with technology I'm hungry to understand how it works. And if you throw another piece of technology at us quantum AI I know enough about a range of topics to be able to educate other people about that.

Speaker 2: 18:08

I think I was incredibly lucky to start off in a family that allowed me to be curious that, for whatever reason, I got the bug, the technology bug, and I played with this tech. I'm now that go-to person for my friends, my family and people that I work for. They ask me to come and present about AI. They ask me to fix their Wi-Fi because I've made a career, I've made a life out of understanding how technology can impact you and actually help you in your personal and professional life.

Speaker 3: 18:37

So, looking ahead, what excites you most about the future of AI and technology, and what should businesses be preparing for as we enter this new frontier of digital transformation?

Speaker 2: 18:48

So AI is not going away. Will AI take my job? No, but someone who knows how to use AI will take your job, so you need to be aware of it now. You need to be playing with it now. I think we're going to see in our lifetime getting very, very close to what we call artificial general intelligence, where AI thinks as close as a human can. The two things that AI will never be able to do, experts tell me, are feel empathy or love, so there's still a role for humans in society, but I think what we'll find, and what I'm looking forward to, is the minutiae of our lives will be replaced by AI agents, digital agents that'll do some of the bidding and some of the work for us.

Speaker 2: 19:24

What businesses should be preparing for is a world where jobs are going to be augmented not necessarily replaced but where there's boring, menial jobs in counting numbers or doing things that can be done by a robot. We're going to see that replaced. What I will want to see, though, especially in the school system, is the introduction of more teaching about critical thinking. So if an AI tells us the answer to something, can we dissect that and work out whether that answer is right or is there a better way to do it? Ai works on what's come before us. We actually need to still innovate and think creatively, as humans do, about the new frontiers and new things we can do, but can we use AI to augment that and make things happen a lot faster and get us closer to solving cancer? Get us closer to climate change solutions a lot faster by using these technologies that we have today?

Speaker 3: 20:14

So, andrew, I know that you run each of your podcast guests through a quick fire round at the end of each episode, so I thought I'd turn the tables today and run you through your own quick fire round Window, or aisle Window your biggest hope for this year and next.

Speaker 2: 20:28

That we actually start seeing AI used by lots of people and they use it for good. I wish that.

Speaker 3: 20:35

AI could do all of my. My new day of my life. The app you use the most on your phone WhatsApp. The best advice you'd ever receive.

Speaker 4: 20:44

Tell me it can't be done and I'll do it. What are you reading at the moment?

Speaker 2: 20:46

I'm reading a book written by Mustafa Suleiman, the CEO of Microsoft.

Speaker 4: 20:50

AI called the Coming Wave. How do you want to be remembered as someone who brings out the best in other people, as you are the actionable futurist.

Speaker 3: 20:58

what three actionable things should our audience do today to become more digitally curious?

Speaker 2: 21:03

Commit to spend a couple of hours a week playing with new AI tools. Commit to actually sharing that information with friends and family and read Digitally Curious.

Speaker 3: 21:14

Thank you, andrew, and thank you for writing the book. I found it absolutely fascinating.

Speaker 1: 21:19

Thank you for listening to Digitally Curious. Andrew's new book is available to order at digitallycuriousai. Until next time, we invite you to stay digitally curious.